I decided to start a new thread for this. What would increase the "Value" of the sport/hobby to you? What would it take to make you a hard core RC Warship junkie even if the cost and time involved actually increased? I probably represent somebody on the outside edge of the hobby, I admitt that freely. I'm not a member of any club, so I'm working to build a ship that represents what I think RC Warship Combat should be, and working on a rules set that will allow others who think like me the chance to build and battle (safely of course) in a club that caters to us "oddballs". To me, its all about the history. I've been an avid fan of Naval History since I was a kid. One of the best days of my life was the chance to crawl around in the dank, rusty bowels of the U.s.s. Texas. Lots of people couldn't figure out I was so stoked about getting covered with rust and dirt. Because that was the closest I could get to history. Sadly I'll never see the Texas move under her own power or fire those monster 14" guns again. I'll never see the Grand Fleet sail out of Scapa Flow, and I'll never see a squadron of battlecruisers slicing through the water belching huge cloads of coal smoke. The closest I can get to the things I enjoy reading about so much is to build them in scale as close to the real thing as possible. That means lots of research, stacks of books, expensive plans and even more expensive tools as fast as my saved pennies will allow... If the end result is an early dreadnought with its en echelon turrets, casemate guns, torpedo nets, etc. all looking and working like the original... I'm happy. Regardless of cost, regardless of time, regardless if only 3 other people in the whole world agree with me and want to build ships like mine. But thats just me, maybe I'm a wierdo. How about you guys?
Let me be the first to say that one thing that needs no improvement is the people. There a a good number of people I consider friends who I have never even met in person. I too fall on the naval history side. Give me your odd, your quirky, your multifunneled turret farm.! Which I guess pretty well limits me to Russia and France.
"Value" is a pretty odd term to use. Sounds like someone has been taking too many marketing classes at the university. The hobby of RC combat offers different things to different people, which is good. Myself- I am interested in engineering the perfect RC warship- or realy as close as possible. It would be senceless to build one to random rules, because all warships need skilled competition to gage results. The most competition and skilled captains can be found battling with MWC- along with a mix of history buffs, scale ship types, war-gamers and others guys haveing there version of a good time. Of course then there is the distruction.... Distruction is good. Perfection is well executed distruction.
I am probably a wonderful example of the "hard core RC Warship Junkie". I love fighting warships, I love building warships, I love reading about them, I love telling stories about them, I love taking pictures and making videos about them. But to me, the single biggest value of Model Warship Combat is the camaraderie. I was initially drawn to the hobby by the sport of fighting warships. I absolutely LOVE the challenge of sailing a ship in a fleet of battle and trying to sink the opposing fleet. I'm very aggressive and I've got no problem coming back to port shot full of holes, because I know that I gave as good as I got. The "gaming" aspect of the hobby is a powerful addiction. But that's not the only aspect that drew me in. I also enjoy the building of ships. Taking a ship from dream to reality is a wonderful experience. From selecting the ship to cutting the keel and subdeck, to putting the completed ship on the water for its very first battle, I savor each and every moment and step along the way. But even that does not compare to the camaraderie I find here. Every Saturday, from 12:00 to 5:00, I go to Neal's Garage to build boats. It's so important to me that I'm there every Saturday come hell or high water. I'm not the only one who goes. There's about 5 other regulars who go there every Saturday, and probably 10 other irregulars who show up from time to time. We chat, we socialize, we talk about boats, and each person slowly makes progress on their own projects. We talk about strategy and tactics, ship construction and cannon design. And the most fantastic part is that the whole is so much greater than the sum of its parts. Because everyone comes together at Neal's Garage, we each become empowered to do so much more than we could by ourselves. And it shows. Because we have at least five different creative minds to work on any individual project, at least ten pairs of hands to help overcome any individual obstacle, and the combined experience of five different skippers and shipbuilders, the warships we build are light-years ahead of everyone else's. The regulars at Neal's Garage have won the WWCC's annual Campaign Battle two years running because in that battle it's a mob of "Allied" battleships against a highly dedicated and coordinated team of Axis warships. So what's my point? What would increase the "value" for me? Better opposition. It's simple. Get together with other shipbuilders once a week. (or two weeks, or one month, whatever you can manage) Do it regularly. Talk with the others who show up, and learn from them. Share your ideas, and tools, and help each member build their ships. Once you realise how much better these build days are, you'll never go back. And since you'll get so much better at building and fighting ships from these build sessions, you'll become a much better opponent for me in battle. I will challenge you to get better, and you will challenge me to get better, and we all will have more fun.
I'm with Carl on this. I joined because of the camaraderie and because it sounded like so much fun! I discovered model warship combat sometime in the late 90s while exploring the internet (probably was the IRC web site). The battle reports were a blast to read! Each report told stories of people having fun more so than "ship 1 sank ship 2". That is what drew me towards the hobby. Some are probably asking "why did he wait until this year to join?". Simple ... didn't have the time or money to do it, especially the money. But since joining, it's been a hoot! Heh. Is there anything that increase the "value"? We need more people to have fun with.
Which reminds me, I'd like to get some reviews and critiques on my videos, battle reports, and other articles (more than just "that was fun" and "keep up the good work") so I can improve my writing, editing, and shooting (film, not just bb's []) I'll start a new thread for that.
I was just asking my question in the cost vs. benefit speak. Value sounds kind of odd to me too. But what I was saying is what would make the sport/hobby more fun for you? To the point you would be so hooked that an increase of cost and time wouldn't bother you.
Ah, Russia and France. Sworn enemies of the High Seas Fleet [}] You could always build a 1/72 scale French Armored cruiser and try to chase down my SMS Blucher [8D]. You'll never catch me, but who needs speed when you have six funnels! Ha ha!
I dare say, if a few more people took some marketing courses, we might not need to be having this discussion. If wanting to draw more people into the hobby isn't a marketing problem, I'd really like to know what is. JM
I'll hazard an answer to that question. I've talked with people who have expressed an interest in the hobby. They have gone to You-Tube and seen the videos. As I've been told by more than one person is the amount of damage inflicted on the ships before they sink is increadible. They ask "How long does it take to repair that." We all know the answer to that. They go to the websites and see pictures of ships after a battle literally having sections of skin gone. At that time they decide they don't want to get into it because of the time and money involved. I had one person tell me not that long ago when they were in the hobby (and since has gotten out) that his problem was all the politics. Going to a building session and some captains complaining that some ship got short changed and deserves something that is outside of the scope of the club. That rules applied to some, but not to others and the rest of the club was OK with that because of what the offending captain brought to the table (personality and technology wise). When a club has a policy against personal attacks on their website, and it happens and the recipiant responds to deflect the attack or answers back in kind, he is then targeted by the rest of the group for attacking the initiator. I fail to understand that logic. Then the webmasters do nothing about it due to not wanting to "offend" the membership. That's another reason we lose people. It seemed like you have those captains that had time, money and know-how to put together a fantastic ship for competition. And you have those who were more interested in building a beautiful ship that works well but didn't have all of the gismos to be as competitive. In other words, you have those who are like the hot rodder, taking a car and putting on ground effect to accent the body and aerodynamics, nitris, playing with the on board computer and electronics to get high horsepower out of a small engine. And then you have those who want to do an original restoration. Everyhting has to be original, engine, wheels, interior, body, etc. I think you get the idea. It's like mixing oil and water. R/C combat is similar to that. You have those who live for the competition and strive for that technological edge to come out on top in the competition. And you have those who want to have a good looking ship that works well but doesn't have the time or the know how to be as competive. That's why we have so many different types of combat. Big Gun is for those who like the scale similarites better model and real life. Small gun is for those who like to strive for the competition. Treaty is for those who like a mix of both. This isn't slamming one over the other. I've battled in both types. There are great people in both. There are some that I have met 25+ years ago and still consider my friends even though I no longer participate in there clubs. If they call me, I'm there, and they know it. Another of the turn offs is the amount of time spent on the workbench doing maintenance in proportion to amount of time on the water. Back when I was getting into the hobby in 1982, Stan Watkins told me "If you want to get into it the hobby, you'll figure out how to build the ship and arm it." At that time it took on average 3 years to get a ship working at peek efficiency. There were acceptions to the rule but by and large that was the way it was. You got in because of the ships, you stayed in because of the commeradary/people. Politics was at a low. People accepted things as they were. The "Unfair advantage" was reliability. Now with the technology and availablity of commercial resources a rookie can have a ship on the water and be competitive with the first year. There's quite a volumn of ships that are for sale within clubs that people can buy and jump start one of the biggest hurdles there is, time involved in building the hull. Things now are simpler getting started than they were back in the beginning but the hobby was growing. Some clubs are experiencing growth and others are experiencing staggnation or contraction. Why is that when things are easier now? I'm sure by now alot of you would want to string me up on a pole and shout insults at me (I'm sure drawing and quartering has be expressed[]) but this is from over 27 years of interest and 25 years of participation in both Big Gun and Small Gun and being a founder of 2 clubs. The point I'm trying to get at is that there are great people in both disciplines of combat and many who I consider my friends and always will. But I think we need to look at our motives while we participate/build. People get in and want to build a certain ship due to history of what ever. They are then told "No you don't want to build that, I won't be any good." (I understand a Bismark and Yamato are bad first ships, but that's a side note.) The newbie then builds the ship recommended then get shreaded because they were seen as the "weak link" on the opposing team. It's fun for the shreadder, but not for the rookie/captain who spent lots of money and time building and traveling to a meet just to spend the next night resheeting and replacing items that got broken or to make the ship more competitive. New people won't hang around for that for very long. Respect is what's needed. Respect for the rules in your club (not finding loop holes). Respect for the different forms of combat. Respect for those who build the ships (even if it's not the cookie cutter accepted type). Respect for the rookie who may be having issues on the water with a new ship and not seeing it as an opportunity to get easy points. That's why I think we have issues growing/improving the value of the hobby, and that's what it is. You do it because you love it. It gets in your blood and you dream of that ship you always wanted to build but don't because know it won't be able to stay about sea level for more than 5 minutes. In the end you accept that and move on. On a personal note, I love this hobby and have loved it for years. This was not ment as an attack, just an observation. I want to see all the different forms grow and prosper beyond our wildest imagination. But until we accept people are not going battle in "what we think is the best form" of combat/or build ships that go against the mainstream, we are going to have issues with growth and quality (time spent, ships built and people joining) within the hobby.
Well spoken sir. I am going into it knowing my more unconventional ship choices will get me more often sunk than not. Just so long as my magazines/batteries are empty when it happens its good with me. Pax, Anachronus P.S. However, with this being a more naval group, I think the prefered technique is keelhauling rather than drawing and quartering
HI All I have to agree with Boatmeister here on a lot of things. I got started in the hobby in the mid 80s in Washington state. I started becuase of the history and family history and was hooked on the ships, it later became the people I met that kept me in till this day. I have made some really good friends and met some out standing people along the way! I have considered quiting a couple of times because like others I got tired of the politics that got involved in this great hobby. But after thinking it over and talking with family and friends I stayed it this hobby.I guess if I had to do it again I would not have changed a thing! Buddy
I guess I'm the odd duck around here. I like the combat, first & foremost. I feel that combat is the single differentiating aspect of the sport (sorry: hobby) & therefore the most important aspect to me. If I were into scale modeling, I wouldn't touch combat with a 10-foot pole. I've seen some very, very nice scale models, but none of them were in combat. The scale modeling aspect of the hobby is very poor by comparison - for a very good reason - & since that's not why I'm here, I have no problem with that. I do think it's ridiculous to take scale & detail seriously, to the point of taking months or even years to complete building a ship that would never even rate an honorable mention in a "real" scale modeling competition. I appreciate technology, not for its own sake, but to improve & enhance the combat experience. I believe in a level playing field, & wouldn't want to have a situation where technology alone was the deciding factor in battle. I'd like everybody to have access to the same equipment & systems at a reasonable price. There are a lot of good people in this hobby, but that's nothing unique. There are good people everywhere, if you give them a chance. Every group claims to have good people, & as far as I can tell, they're all correct. Camaraderie is everywhere. Warship combat is no different in this regard. JM
Just have to jump in and ask the question... There are no personal attacks happening on this website, are there? I haven't noticed any... I will always encourage a good heated debate; but will not tolerate personal attacks. If I miss one, I expect people to tell alert me. I will have words with anyone who attacks my friends in my house, & I don't give a damn who you are.
We are a very civil bunch. Unlike those who get in overly heated arguments about what color the Arizona was when it went down.
