If it helps Chase and I could share shipping as I would like one also before it goes to the states (Or I would like to be able to buy the mold) so lets talk before any shipping happens shall we Bryan
We'll have to see what the other guys who contributed to the project want to do re making hulls for sale. I think that after we each have a hull the molds should be sold to someone who can make the hulls and other parts year round. That eliminates me because I no longer have an indoor workspace for hull production and can only make hulls in warm weather (April - October). Steve has a suitable workspace but is extremely difficult to contact and probably too busy to make hulls (i.e., though he's had molds for the Fiji Class CLs and Dorsetshire Class CAs for several years he's never had time to market and sell them). Jay has a work area with a ventilation system to exhaust fiberglass fumes but is learning to make plugs and hulls and will be busy with the Tone project for a few months. I expect Jay to chime in soon and give us his opinion re what to do with the molds after the first 4 hulls are made. A local possibility is Ralph Coles. He finished a new workshed this summer and presumably can heat it via a space heater while making hulls. He's had a lot of experience in laying up small hulls, having made dozens of DDs. If he agrees we can retain the molds and he'll make and sell the hulls. No matter who makes them the shipping should be cheap. They're short enough to be shipped by Canada Post and the air mail cost should be in the $20 - $25 range. No price has been discussed for a set of I-400 parts (upper and lower hull, hangar and conning tower). There's more labour involved than making a one-piece Liberty ship hull, which BC sells for $100 or more, so the cost should be at least that high. Bob
I just talked to Ralph Coles. He's found a supplier of decent quality resin located a few minutes from my workplace - I'll get a fresh supply of resin at noon. He also gave some advice re working around the sharp angles on the catapult and upper deck edge during mold lay-up this weekend. Ralph will make, sell and ship I-400 hulls if we want him to. He needs a small space heater for his shed and points out that production will be slower in winter weather - longer curing times will be needed as the heater will make the shed warm enough to work but not 'toasty'. Bob
Sorry I haven't spoke up yet, been busy with my #@&@*#$^ insurance company ( but that is another story). I personally think we need more submarines in the world (being a Submariner an all) and have no problems with making and selling a couple-few extra hulls. I, for one would like the practice since I am new at it, but as with the Tone, no hulls will be done until Bob says they are good enough. Bob if you grab me some resin 'n stuff too, I 'ld appreciate it. I don't think either Dave or Steve will have a problem selling hulls either. Steve is actually giving me the Fiji mold to play with too. J
A fiji would be a nice ship to have also. One of these days I'd like to build an HMCS Ontario/Quebec. --Chase
Jay, My concern is that Steve has had so little time to devote to this project since June that you, Dave and others who want I-400 hulls might have to wait a long time to get one. Small hulls require previous hull making experience due to a) physically restricted access to the interior of a small mold for application of gelcoat and glass, and b) ensuring a small hull is built light enough. Steve is the only one of you with hull making experience at this point. I don't want to get into I-400 hull making, due to lack of appropriate facilities and to other hull projects, so I think we should ask Ralph to make enough hulls to fill current orders and make extras for our group in return for using our molds. I plan to make my I-400 hull when the molds are finished (hopefully next weekend). Making the conning towers and hangars involves relatively little stink so I can probably make all we need for our group in my basement, sealing them in plastic bags to cure. Unless Steve can make the 3 hulls for him, you and Dave in the immediate future I think the molds should go to Ralph (temporarily) on completion. He can work full time on production and make an I-400 hull every 2-3 days. If the plugs come out of the molds undamaged I suggest you and Steve make a second set of I-400 hull molds to speed production. It would be good practice to prepare for the Tone project. Bob
The mold making is not proceeding well. Trusting the weather forecast I applied the first coat of gelcoat at 6 PM last evening and expected to apply the second at midnight after the first had set outside. By midnight the temperature had dropped about 8 degrees F lower than predicted and was at freezing. The gelcoat had cured due to a higher % of catalyst being used to compensate for low temperature, but the temp had gone too low and caused the gelcoat to lift from the flanges and a few small spots on the plug, leaving air pockets beneath it. There is no way to correct this so I had to peel off all of the gelcoat. Fortunately the plugs weren't damaged. Today the temp was supposed to go to 15 C but has been revised to only 10 C, which makes gelcoating iffy. I'm going to try again in a couple of hours, again using a higher percentage of catalyst. This might work because the temp is supposed to vary by only a couple of degrees overnight and be warmer tomorrow. If all goes well one half of each plug will be ready for glassing tomorrow. However, thunderstorms are predicted and if there's wind the rain will blow across the porch below roof level, preventing any work. Bob
The temperature was almost spring-like yesterday and the wind blew the rain against the opposite end of the house (vs onto the front porch) so I was able to lay-up the first halves of the upper and lower I-400 hull molds. It was a slow process (4.5 hours) due to the many sharp angles and extra care needed to prevent voids between the glass and the gelcoat. The wooden centerline flanges will be removed this evening and the gelcoat and glass flanges made yesterday will be waxed. When there's another warmish day gelcoat will be applied to the second half of each hull plug. The gelcoat has to set for about 24 hours so a second warm day will be needed to finish the molds. The forecast for the next few days is too cold but next weekend the temp should be (barely) warm enough to finish the job. Bob
So far so good. The first half of each hull mold is finished and the wooden centerline flanges have been removed. One sustained minor damage and the other quite a bit but both can be repaired and reused if necessary. The other half of each plug and the new gelcoat /fiberglass flanges have been thoroughly waxed. A few days of warmer weather are needed to finish the molds. Alternatively, I'm preparing a box I can seal, so after applying gelcoat or resin the molds can be placed in it to cure, then it can be taken outside and vented. My significant other is a bit sceptical but will consent if there is no warm weather in the next week - a strong possibility! Assuming the molds turn out OK I'll give them to Ralph Coles, who should be able to start making I-400 hulls shortly after the molds are finished. If the plugs are reusable after the molds are removed I'll repair and reattach the wooden flanges so Steve and Jay can have a go at a second set of I-400 hull molds if they wish. I'm still discussing the deal with Ralph. He's agreed to make hulls for Steve, Jay and Dave in return for using my hull molds and selling several I-400 hulls but will probably charge for materials, which will be relatively cheap. Bob
Bob, Thanks for keeping us all up-to-date. Glad to hear you are able to make progress. Also, it's great to hear Ralph is involved. He, as well are you, are known for the quality work you do. Do you know yet how one may go about purchasing the various components for the I-400? Thanks, Bob
Bryan, If you're ordering a hull too, maybe we should combine orders if/when they do go into production to save on shipping, since I definitely would like one also. --Chase
Works for me, (you going to Rich's on the 21st for the meeting?) We can discuss it next time we meet up, or otherwise they can be shipped here and I can get you yours then. Bryan
Captkonig, Do you mean internal components? If so I won't be able to answer fully until we've built a working prototype. My first I-400 was built from a BC hull deepened 1/4" and used my superstructure components, Hi-Tec microservos, standard Clippard 'plumbing', a custom built BB cannon, molded fiberglass tanks for ballast, a Fury microreceiver (that kept failing despite being returned to the factory and reported to be fine), a Rock the Boat reg. with 20 gm CO2 capsules for firing and blowing ballast tanks, Speed 280 motors, Rivabo props and shafts, and 6V1.2Ah Panasonic gel-cell batteries.The new sub will be significantly different in design. Bob
The price hasn't been set yet but will be more than a BC Liberty ship hull because there are 4 pieces to mold and they'll take much longer to lay up than a simple freighter hull. The temp was higher than forecast yesterday reaching 15 C in the sun, so I went home at noon and gelcoated the second halves of the upper and lower hull plugs. The gelcoat had set by late afternoon with no problems. What remains to do is about 4.5 hours of work to finish glassing the molds and a few hours to fine sand the mold surfaces. When that'll be done is uncertain. The weather will be suitable Saturday but I'll be in NB for the weekend. After that we're unlikely to have many days warm enough for molding. I'll probably have to build the air-tight box I mentioned before so the molds can cure in the basement without producing fumes that will offend my wife. If that works I'll be able to make hulls at home though at a slow production rate. Bob
To conclude the off topic discussion of the Fiji variants, I found the HMCS Uganda build thread and photos at the top of page 5 in the North Atlantic Treaty combat Fleet's forum. Bob
The weather hasn't been warm enough to glass the second half of each mold, but Kim will be visiting her parents for 4 days next week. That'll be enough time to complete the molds in the basement and vent the house of fumes before she returns. If all goes well the molds will be removed from the upper and lower hull plugs on Dec. 9 and after several hours of fine sanding and waxing will be ready for use. Ralph should be able to start I-400 hull production by mid-late December. The first 2-4 will be for the people who worked on the project but I doubt that anyone other than Jay and I want one ASAP. There should be a few available for general sale in January. I shot some photos of my first attempt at an I-400 and of the new hull molds being laid up. Will post them later this week. An attempt to post the video of my I-400 doing a static dive and resurface didn't work. Bob
Sounds Great Bob! You are correct that I want ASAP, lots of planning and testing things out. I am going to ask Ralph to let me 'assist' in making my hull, any and all experience will be valuable. Bob are you going to make the glassed fin and hanger for the group? I would like to be in on that too. J
